Curse

Axel Zinfandel · May 11, 2009, 02:18 AM // 02:18

/Signed under certain fixes.

Scatter killed an Ele's primary goal in most of PvE, but it can be avoided for the most part by snaring. Two out of the Four elemental attributes are designated to deal damage, with another (earth) having decent damage potential, though with insanly high armor in HM Elementalists are reduced to support and Healing via Ether Renewal in most of HM PvE.
THE ONLY scatter I've encountered that is actually useful is working with a ER ele with Zealot's Fire, because it makes anything targeting you scatter.

I propose a buff:

Intensity 10en 1ct 45rc
"For 36...60 seconds, your elemental spells have a 50% Armor Penetration, but costs 50% more energy"

ajc2123 · May 11, 2009, 02:24 AM // 02:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

Intensity 10en 1ct 45rc
"For 36...60 seconds, your elemental spells have a 50% Armor Penetration, but costs 50% more energy"

[Intensity] is fine, I use it in one of my builds.

[Elemental Lord] however, I give you full permission to change that.

sonofthort · May 11, 2009, 02:34 AM // 02:34

/unsigned

I think every good point has been made.

1. Without scatter it would be mind numbingly easy.
2. Do nm if u can't handle hm.
3. Work with the scattering: grasping earth, bonder, imbagon, earthbind+meteor shower....
4. Lessen the size of your aggro.
5. Take out groups in sets of 3-4 at a time, because hm scatter ai does not affect groups smaller than 4.
6. Instead of going with the classic and in my opinion boring method of having one tanker/puller, have one puller, and several tanks.
7. Use the environment to block the enemies from scattering.

Hm scatter was not a lazy attempt to make the game more challenging, it made the mosters more realistic, and actually forces us to do more than sit and wait for the perma sin to aggro, then nuke, then repeat.

Skyy High · May 11, 2009, 03:01 AM // 03:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

/Signed under certain fixes.

Scatter killed an Ele's primary goal in most of PvE, but it can be avoided for the most part by snaring. Two out of the Four elemental attributes are designated to deal damage, with another (earth) having decent damage potential, though with insanly high armor in HM Elementalists are reduced to support and Healing via Ether Renewal in most of HM PvE.
THE ONLY scatter I've encountered that is actually useful is working with a ER ele with Zealot's Fire, because it makes anything targeting you scatter.

I disagree with that. Fire is really the only attribute that is centered around dealing lots of damage and nothing much else. Earth, Air, and Water all have tons of support skills that are great to have; I bring the Earth henchman for the wards, not Sandstorm.

UnChosen · May 11, 2009, 03:03 AM // 03:03

The point is that if you have to:

1) Bring a reliable snare that takes up slot
2) Ball the enemies up in the first place, which means a GOOD tank, and every other person needs to know to stay back to avoid aggro.
3) Coordinate snare and AoE spells so they land in the same time, and hope that they don't have hex removal.
4) If they do have hex removal, bring multiple snares.

Obviously this is impossible for pugs, but even with a flist/guild group, all this only achieve results that don't compare to a few necros heroes rushing in with a few minions and a few hexes. By the time the ele even finish casting deep freeze the necroway will have destroyed 80% the group already.

I personally don't find the fact that a few skeletons hitting something with a hex doing more damage than a dozen meteors "realistic" either.

Its funny a class having an entire line of "powerful" aoe spells having to use a mesmer spell (cry of pain) or a monk elite (ROJ) .

Axel Zinfandel · May 11, 2009, 03:41 AM // 03:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

I disagree with that. Fire is really the only attribute that is centered around dealing lots of damage and nothing much else. Earth, Air, and Water all have tons of support skills that are great to have; I bring the Earth henchman for the wards, not Sandstorm.

Air magic is geared toward single target damage with a few support skills.

Earth magic is geared toward support skills with a few AoE damage skills.

If you don't agree with that, read the very in-game descriptions OF the attributes.

Zodiac Meteor · May 11, 2009, 05:53 AM // 05:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

/Signed under certain fixes.

... Are we forgetting that enemy AI needs AI. If I want to fight enemies that doesn't have AI, I'll go play runescape. We will not sink to that level!

Rojway nerf is coming... in 4 days... I can smell it!

Cuilan · May 11, 2009, 05:59 AM // 05:59

Why would an enemy just stand there and let themselves be killed? Scatter doesn't bother me.

Capulatio · May 11, 2009, 06:20 AM // 06:20

/Unsigned

It makes it more realistic because an enemy isn't just going to stand where you are spamming AoE Damage? If it did it would't be very smart now would it? It is common instinct to move when you get hurt, it is a reaction.

I think it is a great part of the game and gives it a challenge.

MirkoTeran · May 11, 2009, 06:45 AM // 06:45

AI needs some major updates, but this is far from it.
/notsigned.

Shasgaliel · May 11, 2009, 07:00 AM // 07:00

The only thing which annoys me with AOE is that my heroes bump together (unless I flag them half of screen from each other but then they stop healing each other) and opponents scatter in a few seconds. Why the hell my heroes cannot be half as smart as dredge or spiders?

UnChosen · May 11, 2009, 07:20 AM // 07:20

The monsters with AoE is far more effective because they break every weakness that make the AoE useless for a normal ele.

Slow cast? No problem, HM monsters have faster cast than normal.
Long recharge? No problem, HM monsters have faster recharge than normal.
High energy? No problem, monsters have super high energy.
Low damage? Wait a sec....players/heroes don't have super armor, AND heroes don't scatter.

If they don't want to remove scatter they have to either lower the armor for all the HM monsters, or tweak every AoE spells to have faster cast, lower recharge, and less cost. Or wider range, even with a snare monsters still escapes in less than 3 sec because adjacent range is ridiculously small.

Fire storm (PvE): 5 energy, 1s cast, 15 recharge. Create a Fire Storm at target foe's location. For 10 seconds, foes near that location are struck for 5...29 fire damage each second.

That's more like it.

MisterB · May 11, 2009, 07:53 AM // 07:53

When foes scatter in hard mode, that just means I get free critical hits on whatever is trying to escape. Or I just call the target, and switch to the next priority target. Try bringing knock down skills; warriors excel at it. I used to find the kiting in hard mode annoying, but now I just take a knock down or snare.

Guild Wars needs more AoE scatter AI. [[Ray of Judgment], I'm looking at you. Also, henchmen and heroes need to learn that standing in AoE is bad. AoE scatter wasn't added purely to limit farming.

UnChosen · May 11, 2009, 09:08 AM // 09:08

As a monk I always see the following situation:

1)Group aggros

2)Monster goes directly to the most squishy char near the front, which is usually the ele.

3)See female ele standing there with her arm raised up waving doing spells with long cast while I scream at the monitor, "Move! MOVE! MOOOVVVEE!"

4)Desperately try to save the ele by casting every prot possible on her while she finish casting the AoE.

5)AoE casted. Monster flee after 2 hits after barely being scratched.

6)All the monsters scatter into ME after I wasted 15 energy protecting the god damn ele for her weak AoE.

Of course people will counter with "you need to manage your aggro better", but this is pugs. And even if I managed to have a perfect aggro on the tank, why would the group want to spend the time casting snare and knockdown, followed by AoE, knowing that HM monsters will NOT be scratched by them, and will eventually break free from snare and flee all at once into the poor squishies?

This is why we are stuck with cookie cutter cry of pain and necro gimmicks. abusing soul reaping.

ajc2123 · May 11, 2009, 10:43 AM // 10:43

Hey, if you don't like necros, then use Searing flames eles.

Those were a fun change in my vanquishes.

Abedeus · May 11, 2009, 11:36 AM // 11:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB

When foes scatter in hard mode, that just means I get free critical hits on whatever is trying to escape. Or I just call the target, and switch to the next priority target. Try bringing knock down skills; warriors excel at it. I used to find the kiting in hard mode annoying, but now I just take a knock down or snare.

Guild Wars needs more AoE scatter AI. [[Ray of Judgment], I'm looking at you. Also, henchmen and heroes need to learn that standing in AoE is bad. AoE scatter wasn't added purely to limit farming.

I think monsters should run 3 aggro circles the second someone wands them or casts a spell near them. Or even buffs himself.

Kattar · May 11, 2009, 11:41 AM // 11:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost Dog

Nevermind this thread might as well be deleted, nobody even reads the posts unless a troll posted it or it's 3 lines long due to lack of thought.

I'll close it for now. If you'd like it deleted, let me know.